darthikyu [16:05:44] |raw|
darth's lecture on plato is starting is fine
[16:05:49] @Darthikyu: nui [16:05:51] @Darthikyu: omfg I hate you [16:05:53] %MicktheSpud: hi dr dr [16:05:54] damnright: gl hf darth [16:06:02] %MicktheSpud: good luck lad [16:06:08] @Darthikyu: /announce 2 things [16:06:30] @Darthikyu: /announce 1. This lecture uses basic/simple terminology to keep thingd accessible and understandable. We're not here to become uni grad philosophers. [16:06:38] @Darthikyu: /announce 2. This is a short lecture. Questions at the end. [16:06:43] @Darthikyu: /announce Without further ado [16:07:00] @Darthikyu: Today we'll be talking about Plato darthikyu How to use it? darthikyu [16:07:14] @Darthikyu: A greek (technically Attican) philosopher born around 428 BC [16:07:17] @Darthikyu: .link https://i.vgy.me/RNIgc3.png [16:07:17] |html|
[16:07:20] @Darthikyu: handsome fella [16:07:52] @Darthikyu: Plato was the student of Socrates, and it's through plato that we know about socrates in general [16:08:07] @Darthikyu: Socrates himself never wrote things down, Plato did, which is a large part of why Plato is so important [16:08:13] @Darthikyu: the other part of why he's so important is for later [16:08:29] @Darthikyu: Plato's relationship with his teacher is a bit weird seeing as they didn't really agree on much (in theory)_ [16:09:00] @Darthikyu: Where Socrates believed there was no such thing as a "truth" that you could know for sure, Plato's philosophy centers around there being a universal truth. [16:09:12] @Darthikyu: That aside Plato is one of the best known philosophers of all time darthikyu How to use it? darthikyu [16:09:20] @Darthikyu: as his works have survived for over 2400 years [16:09:28] @Darthikyu: and in that time there's always been people reading and studying his notes [16:10:32] @Darthikyu: For those who wonder, his name, Plato(n) comes from the word 'broad', usually thought to come from either his wide forehead or the fact he was smart (accoridng to himself) [16:10:39] @Darthikyu: it's not his birthname, he chose it himself. [16:10:51] @Darthikyu: More importantly there's little known about Plato's youth [16:11:06] @Darthikyu: he was a son from a wealthy family, studied diligently, and was taught by Socrates when it came to Philosophy [16:11:15] @Darthikyu: most importantly he kept Socrates' idea that dialogue is very important [16:11:46] @Darthikyu: Plato himself prefered to focus on a different field of philosophy, though, namely idealism [16:11:57] @Darthikyu: not to be confused with the idealism that came in the 18/19th century [16:12:06] @Darthikyu: Plato's idealism (Platonism) focuses on a very specific idea darthikyu PasteShr darthikyu [16:12:21] @Darthikyu: namely that everything has a perfect, abstract, uncorrectable form [16:12:54] @Darthikyu: it's a bit of an abstract idea but it's most easily explained with his own cave allegory [16:13:03] @Darthikyu: though I prefer the explanation as following: [16:13:07] @Darthikyu: everything is based on an idea [16:13:14] @Darthikyu: that idea is abstract and isnt in the real world [16:13:20] @Darthikyu: instead that idea belongs in the ideal world [16:13:28] @Darthikyu: in the ideal world, all ideas are present and perfect. [16:13:36] @Darthikyu: In the real world, all ideas are turned into something real by humans [16:13:53] @Darthikyu: For example, the ideal chair exists in the ideal world. However, chairs we make and use are "derived" from the idea of a chair [16:13:59] @Darthikyu: Namely: Something you sit on darthikyu PasteShr darthikyu [16:14:15] @Darthikyu: From there, we make chairs in the way we see fit, but they're not the "ideal chair" [16:14:18] @Darthikyu: they're just chairs [16:14:30] @Darthikyu: That's a super simplified idea of Platonism but it is a fairly accurate one [16:14:36] @Darthikyu: This also applies to personal relationships [16:14:43] @Darthikyu: A relationship can, for example, be platonic [16:15:16] @Darthikyu: which means it's an ideal relationship (which is undefined) without a manifestation -> Without physical contact, for example [16:15:35] @Darthikyu: usually used to describe platonic love, for example, it's a kind of love that is purely intellectual, purely in thought [16:15:47] @Darthikyu: which is an accurate description of platonism as a whole: not physical [16:16:20] @Darthikyu: Of course, Plato's biggest contribution to our modern day world is three-fold [16:16:28] @Darthikyu: 1. He gave us socrates' ideas and wrote them downb darthikyu How to get it for free? darthikyu [16:16:33] @Darthikyu: 2. His own ideas are valuable [16:16:52] @Darthikyu: 3. He was the teacher of Aristotle, who is arguably even more important than the former two combined. [16:16:59] +Bimp!: are we allowed to interject (as im doing rn) [16:17:21] @Darthikyu: Well, seeing as I'm done, it's not really interjecting [16:17:22] @Darthikyu: but yes [16:17:25] @Darthikyu: you can ask questions now [16:17:29] +Bimp!: oh i missed all of it then :( [16:17:38] +Bimp!: do you think its possible that plato made socrates up [16:17:50] @Darthikyu: hm [16:17:52] +Bimp!: or i guess how possible do you think that is darthikyu How to get it? darthikyu [16:18:01] @Darthikyu: In pure theory it's not impossible [16:18:33] spiderz: why would he make up a teacher that conflicted with his philosophy? [16:18:35] @Darthikyu: The issue is we really only know his words through Plato [16:18:44] @Darthikyu: conflict is a huge source of thought [16:18:48] @Darthikyu: especially in Greek times [16:18:55] @Darthikyu: when it comes ot proving socrates existed [16:18:59] @Darthikyu: most historians will say it's redundant [16:19:24] +Bimp!: socrates used opponents to share his thoughts and then debunk them regularly [16:19:44] +Bimp!: *their thoughts [16:20:00] sIAnG: Will humans ever reach the ideal chair, whether on accident or systematically? darthikyu How to get it for free? darthikyu [16:20:40] @Darthikyu: No. [16:20:41] @Darthikyu: Never. [16:20:47] @Darthikyu: That's the fact about the ideal chair [16:20:57] @Darthikyu: It's ideal. [16:21:00] @Darthikyu: Humans cannot reach idealism [16:21:04] Andy30: interesting [16:21:04] @Darthikyu: it's impossible [16:21:06] sIAnG: It's just never in our reach no matter how hard we try [16:21:10] @Darthikyu: exactlyu [16:21:16] @Darthikyu: the ideal chair will always be even more perfect darthikyu How to dowload it? darthikyu [16:21:19] +Bimp!: im surprised there was no mention of caves [16:21:21] Andy30: interesting lecture darth [16:21:24] @Darthikyu: I did mention the cave [16:21:26] Ryota Mitarai: Humans themselves are flawed, I don't think people can make something perfect [16:21:29] @Darthikyu: I just didnt explain the allegory [16:21:29] Ryota Mitarai: when they are flawed themselves [16:21:32] %Awesome96Birdy: That was actually really deep o.o good job Darth [16:21:34] @Darthikyu: because it';s a bit complex and long winded [16:21:35] +Bimp!: oh i just cant read [16:21:39] %Awesome96Birdy: I'm just questioning my whole life here darthikyu How to get it? darthikyu [16:21:42] @Darthikyu: I prefer the chair as an explanation [16:21:47] @Darthikyu: because it's shorter [16:21:48] Andy30: lol birdy [16:21:49] Ryota Mitarai: Platon's Cave is the "original" explanation of his idea [16:21:51] @Darthikyu: and easier for all ages to comprehend [16:21:55] sIAnG: I like the chair [16:21:59] %london13: so Awesome96Birdy is a poorly made chair [16:22:03] +Bimp!: so do you think that the form of computer has always existed [16:22:03] %Awesome96Birdy: Guess so lmao [16:22:07] Andy30: lool darthikyu How to get it for free? darthikyu [16:22:17] @Darthikyu: Ah a good question [16:22:27] @Darthikyu: Ideals can be made by humans [16:22:30] @Darthikyu: just not physically [16:22:52] @Darthikyu: For example at some point in time the ideal clothes (something to cover, protect, warm, and hide the human body) came to be [16:22:58] @Darthikyu: before that there was no need [16:23:06] @Darthikyu: and the ideal didnt exist [16:23:06] %Awesome96Birdy: So nothing can ever be perfect? [16:23:10] @Darthikyu: correct [16:23:14] %Awesome96Birdy: Scary to think but nice [16:23:17] +Bimp!: but forms are eternal darthikyu How to dowload it? darthikyu [16:23:23] %london13: not really scary Awesome96Birdy [16:23:29] %Awesome96Birdy: Well, yeah, it is scary [16:23:30] @Darthikyu: Ideals cannot disappear [16:23:34] damnright: good lecture darth, ty [16:23:42] Andy30: wdym dissapear [16:23:44] @Darthikyu: note that these are mostly my opinions [16:23:48] spiderz: darth [16:23:49] +Bimp!: is a form only eternal once it is conjured in thought [16:23:58] +Bimp!: cause thats not really traditional eternity [16:23:58] @Darthikyu: I'd say yes darthikyu PasteShr darthikyu [16:24:13] @Darthikyu: It's a bit of a question about creationism sort of [16:24:16] +Bimp!: eternal applies no beginning, no end [16:24:19] @Darthikyu: if IDeals existed before we invented them [16:24:21] +Bimp!: *implies [16:24:23] @Darthikyu: then something invented them [16:24:29] @Darthikyu: if ideals are truly eternal [16:24:29] spiderz: would a perfect square be an ideal square [16:24:32] @Darthikyu: then something eternal invented them [16:24:36] spiderz: if you know what i mean [16:24:40] Andy30: hm darthikyu How to get it? darthikyu [16:24:42] @Darthikyu: which means there would be an eternal being [16:24:47] @Darthikyu: if you dont believe in that [16:24:52] @Darthikyu: then you cannot believe ideals are eternal [16:24:52] %london13: Darthikyu could u make a perfectly imperfect object [16:24:54] @Darthikyu: and vice versa [16:24:58] %london13: ;P [16:25:04] %Awesome96Birdy: Okay then, so I don't believe ideals are eternal [16:25:17] +Bimp!: well i guess thats circular logic that aristotle tried to solve with the idea of hte first mover [16:25:33] @Darthikyu: It's comparable to Zeno's logic [16:25:39] @Darthikyu: also known as the hare and the turtlew darthikyu How to get it for free? darthikyu [16:25:41] +Bimp!: so there was an original mover that put into motion everything today and with that initial "push" came to be forms [16:25:45] @Darthikyu: if you only move half the distance eac htime [16:25:49] @Darthikyu: you'll never cross the distance [16:25:52] @Darthikyu: it's the same with this [16:25:54] @Darthikyu: you cannot solve both sides [16:25:59] @Darthikyu: you can only solve half the issue [16:26:05] @Darthikyu: so there'lll always be an issue [16:26:08] @Darthikyu: with the theory [16:26:10] Ryota Mitarai: Unrelated to the Plato topic, did Aristotle write down anything on his own or he's the same as Socrates [16:26:15] @Darthikyu: he wrote darthikyu How to dowload it? darthikyu [16:26:21] Ryota Mitarai: k [16:26:26] +Bimp!: i just think that its faulty to call something eternal and say it begins with us [16:26:43] +Bimp!: there needs to be a better term for it [16:26:47] @Darthikyu: keep in mind [16:26:49] @Darthikyu: Plato was greek [16:26:53] sIAnG: What works of Aristotle was influenced by Socrates? [16:26:57] @Darthikyu: terms get translated and usually not ll that great [16:27:01] @Darthikyu: sIAnG idk by heart [16:27:05] +Bimp!: well like [16:27:06] @Darthikyu: Aristotle is outside my field of study darthikyu PasteShr darthikyu [16:27:07] @Darthikyu: atm [16:27:09] +Bimp!: all of them i would say lol [16:27:14] @Darthikyu: fact [16:27:18] +Bimp!: also darth [16:27:23] +Bimp!: im a philo major so :) [16:27:26] +Bimp!: im just giving you shit [16:27:28] @Darthikyu: lol nice [16:27:32] @Darthikyu: why did I not even know [16:27:37] %Awesome96Birdy: Mood ^ [16:27:48] sIAnG: So Aristotle didn't come up with original concept, just expanded on Plato's? darthikyu How to dowload it? darthikyu [16:27:49] +Bimp!: its in my MTA blurb -_- [16:27:52] %Awesome96Birdy: I've been sitting here for quite a while trying to register the information but mainly failing [16:27:58] %Awesome96Birdy: Bimp idk all I remember was you being from New Joisey [16:28:00] +Bimp!: i can explain later birdy [16:28:13] %Awesome96Birdy: No it's ok I think I can read it again and try to let it sink in [16:28:18] %Awesome96Birdy: This is what I do in school too ;; pure sadness [16:28:30] @Darthikyu: I didnt read that!! [16:28:30] %london13: its fine [16:28:32] +Bimp!: philosophy is best tackled at like 18/19 [16:28:35] @Darthikyu: FACT darthikyu PasteShr darthikyu [16:28:39] @Darthikyu: anyways [16:28:41] @Darthikyu: that was my lecture [16:28:44] sIAnG: Just take screenshots and review em later [16:28:46] %london13: gj Darthikyu [16:28:50] +Bimp!: very good darth, philo major approved! [16:28:56] sIAnG: That was nice thanks Darth [16:29:03] %Awesome96Birdy: Nice job Darth, very very deep xd darthikyu